Chuck Murphy and Sarah Marion take a deep dive into the fitness habits, struggles, and differences of Gen X. They discuss what they are into, trends they are seeing, and how best to serve them moving forward.
Chuck Murphy 0:00
Hi, everyone, welcome to key takeaways. I'm Chuck Murphy and today I'm joined by Sarah, Marian. And we are going to talk a little bit about generational differences in fitness engagement. And Sarah presented at a conference last week to a bunch of fitness professionals and about how different generations approach fitness differently. And one of the generations that really sticks out is Gen X. And they have lower engagement with working out in a gym memberships and that sort of thing. And we started talking about whether or not this was kind of a life stage thing that might debate in a couple years, or is it a generational thing that we expect to stick with them for the next 10 to 20 years? It that it was an interesting discussion, we felt that it was worth recording a podcast on and Sarah's always a delight to listen to because she's so knowledgeable and so good at it all all things fitness and wellness. And so I hope you enjoy the conversation and I will talk to you soon.
Hi, everyone, and mostly hi to Sarah. Super excited to talk this morning. Sarah is fresh off a pretty long vacation. So I'm sure you're going to be extra insightful today. I am about to go on vacation. So I'm going to be extra dreary today. Maybe
Sarah Marion 1:18
we'll balance each other out because I'm going to set
Chuck Murphy 1:21
the expectations low for this. But um, so Sara and I were talking last week. It's as we're going through as her and her team are going through reporting for que tus Staver health report. We're talking a little bit about generational differences. Sarah presented at a conference here in LA last week. So we got to see each other in person, which is pretty exciting. But anyway, talking about the general generational differences, Sarah showed some data that shows that Gen X is working out a little less than going to the gym, less than other generations. And we we got into this discussion of whether that is a life stage thing or a true generational difference. And we thought it would make for a great podcast. So that's we're going to discuss this morning. So good morning, Sarah. Nice to see you. Nice to see you too. We haven't recorded one of these in a while it's been at least a month. I know. I'm excited. guy I know. I'm super excited. This will be fun. And I always love talking about I love talking about the state of our health data. And especially when we get to Gen X, which is you know, my my age group.
Sarah Marion 2:29
You're representing your group here.
Chuck Murphy 2:31
I'll represent the Gen Xers which are sadly becoming like among the older cohorts. No, like, I always think of Gen X is like, you know, younger to middle. No, no, we're getting together with the boomers. Millennials and Gen Z's are getting lumped together. I'm in the older category, but it's okay. It's okay. happens to the best of us. So maybe a good place to start is we can rewind since this discussion between us started last week. But let's rewind back to what some of the data points you were discussing last week and how this conversation started.
Sarah Marion 3:12
Yeah, so I just presented it. It's called Idea world. It's a big convention for personal trainers and fitness instructors. And I presented on generational fitness journey. So how each generation approaches fitness, and you know how you can use that knowledge to better serve your current customers and also, you know, attract new ones. And Gen X is always kind of an interesting case in our data set, because by the numbers, they're just kind of in between Millennials and Boomers, but that hides a lot of I think nuances and also difficulties if you're in the fitness industry around marketing to Gen X, because Gen X are actually at this age, it's precisely when people drop their gym memberships. And I think we should so Gen X technically right now is ages 43 to 58. So just smack dab in middle age Yep, does that does that resonate? I
Chuck Murphy 4:19
don't know. I'm very clearly a Gen X or I'm like smack in the middle of the range like you're a little more of a tweener but I am smack dab in the middle of that rage. Yeah, and I'm gonna represent Gen X really well today, sir, you got a vacation coming up. I'm gonna give all this all my energy. Good. Perfect.
Sarah Marion 4:40
Yeah, so Gen X like this isn't a hard I'm not a hard time of life necessarily. But it's a time when there's a lot of I think physical transitions, right? Yes, shifting your your, your body is changing. And I think that's part of the struggle that Gen X probably has with fitness. is that you can't do the things that you used to be able to do. And that makes fitness less fun, it makes it kind of harder to want to do. But there's some other things going on too, that will, I think that we can dig in, because I think there's a generational approach to fitness that is driving Gen X away from the gym specifically. So Gen X has some of the lowest numbers of gym memberships. So just to give you an example, for ages 35 to 44, which is the elder millennials and a little bit of the beginning of Gen X. So 43% of them have a gym membership, I should say 43% of those who are fitness engaged have a gym membership. And that drops down to 27% for the next decade, up 45 to 54. And then it drops even further if your ages 55 To 64 to 21%. And then after retirement age just starts going back up again. So the boomers are actually more likely to have gym memberships than Gen X does.
Chuck Murphy 6:01
That's so interesting. Not to put you on the spot. I wish I didn't know better than to ask questions like this in the podcast, but I didn't think of it to you said just now is the fitness engagement lower for genetics than it is for progress?
Sarah Marion 6:13
I can check that. I think it's actually about the same. And part of that is because we define exercise and physical activity pretty openly. So you don't have to necessarily.
Chuck Murphy 6:30
Yeah, and it's funny, I think it's I always want you look that up, I'm gonna step back and like, you know, talk like a, you know, an analyst for a sec, but I think there's, there's like a number of different things that make this hard to untangle. Right? Because clearly you have life stage things. Which means, you know, the, is this something that? Did the boomers already also go through this at the same age and then right, that would be more of a life stage thing. We don't have data going back far enough to definitively answer that question. And as far as we know, nobody does. Or at least we haven't been able to find it. But then you have generational differences, right? So it's just something that has, you know, is the causes Gen X to deal with this particular life stage different than previous generations, or upcoming generations. And then you have, you know, a third category of like, is this somehow a macro kind of interaction where like, hey, you know, Gen X dealt with COVID differently than other generations did, which is it's not really so much life stage or generation but but more sort of interaction to sound like a dork. But it needs it does raise a really interesting question, because I do think that Gen X has always been attitudinally. Very different. And we've talked a lot about in other scenarios about how there's definitely aspects of of some of the younger generations that feel more like boomers than they do, like Gen X, Gen X has always been a little generation. But I do think that it's also a particularly difficult life stage. And maybe, maybe we just have, first of all, we have a lot more decisions to make at this life stage then, than previous generations did. Right. Like we didn't, and it was a little more clear. I also to think that I used to do if you agree with this, by the way, did you find the did you find the data? I did
Sarah Marion 8:20
so so Gen X has the lowest fitness engagement by one percentage point. But in terms of
Chuck Murphy 8:27
what is the delta or Yeah, the
Sarah Marion 8:30
number who exercise weekly, or do any kind of physical activity, which people can define as you know, gardening or chasing after children, we have data on that the boomers are higher than Gen X. So are millennials.
Chuck Murphy 8:46
That's interesting. Um, so we've so Sarah and I have already talked about this full disclosure, but I'm gonna go backwards and pretend we never have. And the first question I asked last week, when we were talking about this before your presentation was do you think this is generational life stage? And I think it's interesting to document your answer to that.
Sarah Marion 9:06
Yeah, I think, as a short answer, I think that a big chunk of it is generational. I do believe that life stage plays a part. I think these are two things that are related. But generationally, I do think that as millennials move into middle age, more of them will keep their gym memberships than Gen X has. So by the time Millennials are in this 40s, early 50s life stage, I think more of them will have gym memberships. And that's because for millennials, we see kind of throughout our data and when you speak to them, wellness plays a much bigger role in their lives, and they more of them organize their lives around wellness speaking broadly. So and fitness is a big part of that. So millennials spend the most on fitness of any generation. They A more of them do more activities than other generations, they exercise across different spaces more than other generations, including young adults. So they, they approach fitness, from a different perspective, it's part of self care, it's part of me time, plays a larger role in their lives. Whereas for Gen X attitudinally, they're a little bit more like boomers, and that Fitness is important. But it's a lot like eating your vegetables. It's just something that you need to do, you know, on a pretty regular basis to take care of yourself, but it's not the organizing principle of your life. Right. And I think that is. So that's the, the generational difference. So this is very clear, a different approach to fitness. Because fitness plays a different role in how you feel good about your whole life.
Chuck Murphy 10:58
Yeah, I did they there's a certain discipline to it that millennials and also I think Gen Z, it's under if you disagree with that,
Sarah Marion 11:05
much like millennials, yeah, they're just young. They they
Chuck Murphy 11:09
they kind of they there's a discipline in a, an engagement to it that is different than Gen X has. Boomers, or if you agree with this, but but but there is still the discipline because they tend to be more disruptive and a lot of things. But but there's also just a very clear social component, if that's much more frightening, right? It's just, it's, this is what people do to get together, right, they play now. Or they walk together or they golf together, or they whatever it is they're doing, it's much it's framed, and a little bit more of a a social routine.
Sarah Marion 11:44
Yeah. Which I think
Chuck Murphy 11:47
that's something I kind of wanted to talk about. And I you know, when we talked about this briefly last week, I was I thought about it, and I was like, I'm gonna save this for the podcast. But I think the social part of this is a big dynamic. And I'm totally riffing here because I don't necessarily have the right data to make this argument. But there's always been something a little bit funny about Gen X in terms of, you know, the social side of things. And I do think when you hit, you know, there's unquestionably when you get close to 50, you know, the recovery, the all of this stuff does become, it takes more discipline, it takes more motivation, not so much to do the thing you used to do, but to be Okay, the next day, right? That definitely doesn't my own body's like, I can still go do things I could do 10 years ago, but I really paid for it a lot more, which is where my routines get off of I do like a particularly hard workout. And I'm someone that's always been pretty. Like I'm pretty disciplined. I work out for at least an hour every day, like I always have that's an ice it was like a mental thing. But But I definitely noticed as I get older, it can really wreak havoc with like, oh, you know, I did this how you can now you know, my ankle hurts. So this hurts. And then I'm more likely to somehow make an excuse, or downshift, what should have been the next day's routine becomes a little bit bit of a fight that I've never had before in my life really, like, you know, there's just a difference in terms of like, when you're younger, you might be sore from working out, but it's a different kind of sore. It's not really in the way it's there. You feel it, but it's done. It's not to the level that you're like, I'm not sure I could do this next workout the next day. Like, I'm more likely to get things that it's like, it's not quite soreness, it's more like, Did I do something serious here? Like, you know, it's really it's hard. Yeah. And you have to have a lot more discipline to kind of fight around that I think, I
Sarah Marion 13:42
think so too, and knowledge and you're, you're a person who has been fit and doing this for a long time. Like imagine if you're just coming back to it after a period where you've been raising kids and building a career and now it looks I am you know, 30 pounds overweight, I need to get back on the ball. And you can't play basketball, it hurts to even walk and you don't know like is the hurt? Something that's gonna go away? Do I need to wait, it's all of those things become much more difficult to deal with. And I think that's part of that is a life stage thing that happens to everybody at around this age. But it's just another factor kind of keeping Gen X from fitness. And from kind of getting back on the horse if they were ever off of it.
Chuck Murphy 14:33
There's a lot of different ways we could we could talk about this and one of the things I've been thinking about that is interesting to me about Gen X is Gen X has always been like if you go back to this like we have this this Gen X discussion started with like the latchkey kids and the the, you know, overly dependent on TV kind of kids or there's different descriptions of this but they've been a little bit more isolationist. If I could use that word then other gentlemen Asians. And I think it's interesting when you hit this age, it's harder to do social type thing social work. That's right, like you, you. And so I wonder if that might be the thing that that's related to them. We might see them split from boomers in a way because they're not. They're not as good as, as a group here. Obviously, we're talking about it as a group at maintaining, like social routines and social connections. Clearly, clearly, they're not as good as boomers were right boomers are very refocused on that, and they were very, I would say, you have to give them a lot of credit for having these like, strategies for keeping up social routines, like it is very routine, per se. And then and I think in retirement, a lot of a lot of the, you know, you have you flat out socialization, like lunch, but I think you also have like, a lot of a mix, like, there's gonna be four women, they're gonna go on a walk in the morning, or there's gonna be like four guys that have like a standing tennis appointment, or whatever it is, right? Gents, Gen X struggles with that kind of stuff a little bit, they are a little bit more. I don't know if the word, the word conflicted about how to go about stuff like this is there, they make things more complex than they need to be sometimes?
Sarah Marion 16:25
Yeah, that's definitely true. So on either side of Gen X, you have boomers who value, they're socially engaged in a way that Gen X isn't. And then Millennials are looking for community and social engagement from fitness to that's the millennials, they like tribes experiences, and blah, blah, blah. But Gen X, Gen X falls in the middle. And a lot of that is I think, this generational stick of, of, like, Oh, we don't need anybody we take care of ourselves,
Chuck Murphy 17:00
when we consider them is going to hurt you with stuff. And
Sarah Marion 17:05
they really care about self sufficiency and independence. And that factors into a lot of it filters down into into a lot of barriers. And so one is I think exactly what you say, I don't think Gen X needs community any less than any other generation, but they don't think that they do. And so they don't go searching for it. And that becomes when people have community and build community around fitness routines that keeps them doing them. But if you don't think that you need that, and if you're not looking for it, then you're going to miss out on that factor, right. Similarly, and I think it's related, younger people, and older folks, too, but much less than younger people are much more explicitly looking for fun in their workouts. And that drops at this age also. So fitness becomes less fun. And part of that is I think, the generational idea about what fitness means and the role it plays in your life. So becomes much more something that oh, this is just a chore I have to check off. I have to go for a walk today. And whether it's fun or not, is like doesn't factor in as explicitly to the equation around whether you're going to do it and how valuable it is to you. I heard one of the people that came to my talk at this fitness instructor convention said that her Gen X clients, different from boomers and millennials are they bring cynicism with them that I think comes from this generational place of I'm not sure if like, are you trying to scam me, I want to take care of myself like there's is a guardedness that prevents them sometimes from trying new things. Yeah, that it's just much less among older and younger groups.
Chuck Murphy 18:55
Yeah, and I think it's funny. It's good to me, like the psychologist did me is like it's an insecurity. It's very clear. And it's funny, because we mentioned we talked a lot about boomers before, right? Like they they will tell you like, you know, it's funny. I we're always asking people questions about this stuff, right? But if you if you talk to you like a Boomer and you're like, Hey, why do you? Why are you in this, this weekly tennis group. And they'll be like, because those are my friends. And I'm there to see my friends. If it wasn't tennis, it could be much on something else. Right? It's very clear that this is a way to stay socially connected, and they have no insecurity about telling you that if you talk to like a millennial, or Gen Z is the same way. They are choosing, as you mentioned the word tribe earlier, right. I'm super into yoga. And I go four days a week because yoga is really good for your body. And those are my friends because they're also super into yoga. So they're and they actually that that's totally fine. If so do i But but it's a very clear difference in how they think about it. Gen X in between has this weird. You know, to me, it always feels like eggs. The idea of insecurity, like oftentimes people that are isolationist, it's it stems from anxiety first, right, like, but they are not as comfortable clearly saying I need a social circle, right. And they're also like a little bit pessimistic of the whole tribe. They ended up in this weird little bubble, which is why I mean, you mentioned earlier, I think we've talked about this in the podcast earlier. But but one of the ways this conversation came up last week when we're talking about this, these kind of the rise of walking, right, like, so they ended up in this weird, you know, I might say from, there's something wrong with walking, but from an external thing, it doesn't seem as it's certainly not as social. Like, it doesn't appear that they're doing it as a group it that often. But but it leaves them in this weird place where they struggle a little bit to just to define what they need, or what like, like the younger generations define it in terms of my body needs to stay active, right? The older generations, like, define it more as like, I need a social circle. And it's, I don't know, it's just it's interesting with Genex. And it's something that like, I don't see if I if I just had to make a guess on this. If they haven't sort of resolved how to do this by now. I don't know that they are going to become better at it in the next 10 years. Right. I think this might I mean, that's I'm essentially saying the same thing. You said when you said it's mostly generational, it's not necessarily life stage. Oh, yeah,
Sarah Marion 21:29
I agree. I, it's their really hard nut to crack. So walking rises anyway, as walking is always the number one exercise for across all age groups, but the percentage who walk weekly goes up with age, and then the second most popular activity gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And what that means is just most people are walking as their primary form of exercise, which is great, like that is what people should do. From a public health standpoint, that's excellent. And walking, also, like solves all of these barriers that many people have. But that rise with middle age, which is lack of time. You know, so I need something that I can fit into my schedule that I can do by myself. The older you get, how much you pay becomes a bigger barrier. So millennials are willing to pay to get what they want. Boomers don't like to pay, but they do like to be with other people. And customer centric experience, they want to chat with people. So they'll go to a place like where they can get that. And so Gen X, though, is stuck in the middle, they have this practical approach to value that boomers have where they don't want to have to pay more than they need to. But they're also not willing to pay for any of that special stuff, either. Yes, again, that that turns into well just buy some shoes and go out, I'll go for a walk every day. And walking is really great and very, like, easy to do on a regular basis. But I think also, um, it doesn't, it doesn't scratch the itch for everybody. Right?
Chuck Murphy 23:17
Yeah, it definitely is less social. And it'll be interesting to see, like, I just wonder if this is like a little bit of a signal that that Gen X is also going to be very different in retirement, because because I do think the boomers have really, it's funny, they catch a lot of heat these days, especially in social media, people love to hate on the boomers, but they really are in a usual generation to a lot of ways and their retirement is very unusual. And this this has gotten a lot of if you see some of these studies that they're like, they're clearly socializing more retirement than the previous generations. They're drinking more, they're having way more sex.
Sarah Marion 23:55
I think time
Chuck Murphy 23:58
at a party. Right. And so I don't think that Jetix is I don't think this is the new retirement. I think the Gen X is going to get there and they're going to be different. Right? I think that this party ends with the boomers a little bit. Now. I do think maybe the millennials bring are closer to the boomers or bring some of that stuff back later. But I don't know. Meaning discussion to me.
Sarah Marion 24:23
It's a really great question. I think so. Boomer boomers parents, I think that they're replicating a lot of the things they saw their parents do very engaged. This is the whole Bowling Alone thing, right? That's talking about Gen X. Boomers are very socially engaged. And their parents were very socially engaged and active in organizations. They set up tennis clubs. They, you know, join these retirement communities and then join all the clubs to see who they like and meet people. You And I think you're you're completely right. What I have no idea what Gen X is going to look like in retirement, I hope it's not like this kind of sad picture. They'll finally come around. Maybe they're saving all their goals for retirement, you know?
Chuck Murphy 25:23
You hinted at this a few times earlier, but I don't think we flat out discussed it. And again, I'm not going to try to put you on the spot. But so it makes from a from a marketing or business perspective, it makes Genex harder to crack. Did you have it? Was there some sort of consensus as to how some people were successfully marketing to them? Like, is it? Is it kind of a functional kind of argument? Is it more like, a fun kind of like, was there any insights into that? And I know, that's a super hard question. So it's totally fine. If you're, if you're not sure, you
Sarah Marion 25:55
Well, I think that um, so I talk to a lot of, like, fitness professionals, right. And in every generation, there is a group of people who are really into fitness, and that's who they know. And so sometimes when I tell this story about Gen X, which is based on general population data, right? They're like, Oh, well, that's not the my customer. So some lady came up to me a fitness instructor and said, she has a ton of Gen X, and they are all playing pickleball. And they love it. Yeah. Like, Well, are they also in a gym? Yeah, yeah. So it's this, this little cohort that is always there that is very active, and likes fitness. But the problem is that the other side of that equation is so big for Gen X. And, yeah, they're very, it's very difficult to talk to them, because they don't want to pay anything. They're not they're afraid that you're, you know, selling them something they don't need. They want to do it themselves. So I, there, I do think that there is kind of a Darth of fitness programming for this age group. So like people in their 40s and 50s. A lot of stuff for young people write their stuff for boomers and seniors too, but there's not a lot of midlife specific programming. When clearly, like, this age group needs some help, and figuring out how to get exercise that feels good that they can come back and do the next day that's going to like meet their physical needs that they have now. But I think that's hard still to sell to Gen X. Because they don't Is it because they're not sure that they want that. And they also want to do it themselves. Yeah,
Chuck Murphy 27:38
they've got that independence myself. And that's the thing that's interesting is you hit just this bit, but just you know, the ones that the gyms or the fitness programs are seeing, are really enjoying it, because it is good for them. Right? So the ones that have more of the isolationist tendencies, it's not like that is the correct instinct they have right it's a little bit malfunctioning. Your maladaptive is a better word, but if it is good for them, it's just about how and once they engage, they realize that right once they do it, they're like, Oh, this is but the ones that aren't engaging, that are still a little bit, you know, stuck at home, those poor little latchkey kids it's harder to convince them of like, why this is why this is good for you set it up in a way that they're comfortable with, because they're not the benefit of the socialization or the benefit of the wellness. They're skeptical of both. We have to kind of like, I don't know, we got to get like you know, Christian Slater out of retirement, have him explain how fitness has changed his life or something, right?
Sarah Marion 28:44
Maybe Kenny Reeves can come to it. Um, yeah, cuz I think, you know, when we interview people in this age group, there's, we're talking to people who are quite engaged. But even the folks that regularly exercise that care about it a lot, they're doing it in a different way. It's a has to be something that they do by themselves, or this is the the group also, we're frequently there is a person who's like, Well, I do the I try these workout videos on YouTube, but because they're not really sure what they're looking for, and they like, those workout videos aren't always good for them. That's really hard to like, develop a consistent practice around working out at home for a lot of people. Or I do 30 minutes on the elliptical every other day. And that's it, that's all that I do. That's all I need. And it's framed
Chuck Murphy 29:35
in their minds as a chore. It's like it's that's a hard thing to overcome. It's like the old cognitive dissidence studies right? It's the same task with two different framings one person doesn't mind it the other does goes by Yeah. And that's a little bit of how this happened is they have a lot of things and it's interesting is that they've always been a little bit like this with work to like work as a toward new stuff and That's why they get so frustrated with the younger generations that are like bricks up front. And and it's like it's it's interesting to watch you play out. But obviously like this, it's so critical in these later years to brace it, right? Like it's I would make the argument that the older you get, the more critical these kinds of habits or routines are sure,
Sarah Marion 30:21
which is why it's kind of it's kind of a crisis, like, here's this generation that really needs fitness. They need it right now, if they want to have the great years that these boomers are having, and how to get it to them. Like what are the emotional hooks that really work for Gen X, I think is really a struggle. I had a, I spoke to a group of YMCA operators and one of them asked a question, which was how do I get the Gen X parents they come they drop their kids off their teenagers workout? And they just leave? Yeah, because I was talking about how these two generations are related. Right? So Gen Z are the children of Gen X and Gen Z have a much different approach to fitness and yet they're their parents are the ones that just like go to the gym, go have fun, and we great. I and I didn't have a good answer. There. They're choosing every day not to go to the gym actively.
Chuck Murphy 31:26
Yeah, it's it's really wild. Like it's really wild. Like it's, it's a tricky. It's a tricky little puzzle to solve. Because because they reject a lot of the clearest benefits or their sections it rejects, they're skeptical, many of them are skeptical. Now I do that.
Sarah Marion 31:46
One thing that happens at this age is that you start to have people have heart attacks, and these big come to Jesus moments happen either to yourself or to someone you know, and then that is a big trigger that will prompt a lot of people in to action. So it'll kick them into gear. And so we might see some of that kind of on a rolling basis. As you know, more and more Gen X kind of meet those moments. Another I think sticky, emotional hook is keeping up with kids. So in interviews, we did a whole project around, you know, nutrition and fitness at midlife, and quite a few of the people who had kids, the kids are older, right? They're teenagers now and frequently, they're very active, and the parents can no longer keep up with them in the way that they could when they were younger. And so that prompted at least qualitatively some of these particularly dads to say I got to lose this weight so that I can go play basketball with my son because now he's fun to play basketball with but I can't do it anymore. Yeah, yeah. Which is a good that's that like gets it your feelings, right?
Chuck Murphy 33:07
was when he announced that's actually a that's a much easier problem to celebrate. Like that person is like sold on the benefits that the person sitting at home still watching too much TV and playing too many video games or whatever it is the harder person to solve. Because you're not the first step is the hard one, right? Like once someone's like can't really give you a better sheet that's actually pretty easy. Like Alright, let's talk about your options. But as the first person that's more skeptical and doesn't admit yet that they need it to some degree is tricky. It's like it's this is gonna become like a category expansion challenge. For the kind of fitness and I everything we're talking about today we mostly captured was fitness, the the nutrition kind of wellness industry on the other side of the coin has the exact same problem, right? Yes. Yep. Did you know I guess the one the one difference might be that they it's boomers are also more skeptical on that side. They embrace fitness more or wellness. But um, but it's an interesting question. Because that skepticism or that, you know, I always think of it as isolationism is not easy to penetrate. And it's not easy to to change. Now.
Sarah Marion 34:19
On the fitness side, there's a lot of personal training aimed at 40 and 50 year olds, because it makes sense until you talk about Gen X in this way. These people have stability, they have money, they need help. That's what personal training is good for. But that is just a complete mismatch with how Gen X thinks about both their approach to just life in general, because it's about do it myself. Why would I pay somebody to do this thing that I could just I could figure it out. I just need a few hours on Google and I can figure out my own exercise routine.
Chuck Murphy 34:52
And it's all too I think that that is too much. That's a much more uphill battle to fight I think the easier road here is clearly something that's group or systematized. You know like it's something that's
Sarah Marion 35:07
easy to enter. But yeah,
Chuck Murphy 35:10
even has like, social components hooked in that gets you later. Yeah. I mean, I could see why pickleball this pickleball really is built to solve a lot of different problems, is it? It's fast. Wipes like it's funny if it does is a total side note, but just just quick for you, pickleball fad are here to stay.
Sarah Marion 35:34
Good question. I don't know people really like it. I mean,
Chuck Murphy 35:37
people love it to an irrational kind of like,
Sarah Marion 35:41
Yeah, I think it is. I think that part is a fad. I think it will continue to stick around because it is fun and easy to play. But mighty that the humps start to come down.
Chuck Murphy 35:55
It is we'll see. You know what? I find it kind of fascinating. Have you ever played it?
Sarah Marion 36:01
No, I haven't. I keep I want to looks fun. Ping pong tennis.
Chuck Murphy 36:05
I grew up in like a tennis household tennis was the sport. And I still like tennis. But the thing about tennis is interesting is if you're I don't know what it is, like 80 feet away from each other. You can't really have a conversation. The thing that's scary about Pinball is you can just maintain a conversation through the whole game. It is like very social, like it's you're still doing something but it's much more like walking together or or I don't know, cycling together where yeah, you're there's some exertion and there's some moments when you might stop the conversation. But you basically can have a conversation through the whole thing. You're only 15 feet apart. You everyone can hear each other fine. It is very interesting that it like it looks just like shrimp tennis. But but you crossed a chiasm there where all the sudden the conversation could could stick through. Which fundamentally changes everything right? Like it's Yeah. Social, you know, which is that is that this thing that's, you know, I think a lot of people talk about with golf, like, obviously, golf, you have the reduced like athletic components that appeal to older people. But I think that there's like a big social component where you can have a conversation the whole time, basically, which really appeals to people. And that's, you know, when you're younger, and you're playing things like basketball or whatever, that's less of a goal, I think. But as you get older and fitness does have this social component. It's very compelling. That's the part that I originally thought it was a fad. But I The more I look at that part, I'm like, No, this is this is becoming a lot of people's social group is this and, and it's fascinating to watch. It's everywhere around us, but it's at the same place where my kids baseball practices. So I've spent hours and hours watching these pickleball people now you'll have groups that are like 20 or 30 people. And they are just constantly rotating, like who's got next to kind of thing and they have multiple courts going. But you so there might be a moment for 15 minutes when you're out but so if you join this group every Saturday morning, you have like a group of like 30 friends now, if you go every time if do I see it? It's really interesting to watch that I'm like, Wow, this, this might be the most social game I've ever seen.
Sarah Marion 38:21
It sounds I mean, I love that observation. That's got to be why it's so much more fun than tennis right? Aside from you know, tennis takes some skills actually have a
Chuck Murphy 38:32
skill and a lot more athleticism tennis and you know, the older you get, like, this is my problem. Like I was never that good at tennis to run but the older I get, the more like, I play tennis like My knee hurts for like four days afterwards. Like it's I pay a heavy cost for it. And it's hard to be good at whereas pickleball it's actually like it's pretty easy to like that's a dog I think because there are people that are super good at it.
Sarah Marion 38:57
You know, it has all the fun of like a picnic game right? You can play badminton and talk to each other the whole time you can like volleyball on a picnic and talk to each other the whole time.
Chuck Murphy 39:07
And kind of energy which is interesting. Volleyball definitely has that
Sarah Marion 39:14
yeah, no, I haven't got I haven't gotten to play yet. But it what so we recently part of this report coming out as we looked at we ask people how much they enjoy each of the activities that they do. And there's some very clear differences in the data around the types of things that people enjoy the most. We're gonna
Chuck Murphy 39:34
save that because that is a great topic for after my vacation I want to go through different sports with you and rank up by delayed delayed sports versus Rogers.
Sarah Marion 39:46
They're they're very clear, delightful sports and no one's golf is at the top. It's sports that are social but also could potentially combined with alcohol
Chuck Murphy 40:00
i By the way, if I had to just guess off the top of my head what is the most druggie stretchy sport I to me, it's probably weightlifting, strength.
Sarah Marion 40:11
It's a circuit training.
Chuck Murphy 40:14
Yeah. Everybody my whole life I have been trying to convince myself that I should be regular about strength training and it's just such a fight for me like, I just don't enjoy it. I like it when I don't feel the same way. peloton and I'll sweat my buns off. But it's an I think it's fun to a certain degree. But man happy to do that 30 minutes of strength training is just, and by the way, I am like the ultimate example of Gen X. Because if you pair that strength training with someone who's talking to me the whole time, aka personal fitness instructor. That is, is you know, I love them as a group, don't get me wrong, but that is a special kind of pain to me. So I get I get the Gen X thing there.
Sarah Marion 41:01
My husband too, he will do that stuff by himself, he'll follow an app. And then every once I'll be like, maybe I should get a personal trainer because I don't like to strength train either. But it would be good for me. And that would make me go and I don't mind chatting with somebody for an hour while I lift weights, you know, they are a scam, you are not allowed to go sign up with a personal trainer.
Chuck Murphy 41:20
I am I just get tired, either.
Sarah Marion 41:25
But he is really anti personal
Chuck Murphy 41:26
trainer. And it's funny, I know where I thought you're going with this to me, I did. So I did it for a year, I think I think when I turned like 40 or something like I'm gonna get a personal trainer, I'm gonna do this for a year. And I did it for a year, two days a week at like, 6am. Right. And the, the thing I learned was that the guy honestly, by the third month he was driving me crazy he would talk about is he just he just talked so much. But the thing I realized is like, I can't not show up to that appointment now that I've paid for it. Right? That's it. So I would go. That was that was like the benefit. I was like, if I cancel this guy, I'll just hurt start hitting snooze. So I was like, that was the biggest benefit to doing it. I finished it for a year. But at the end of the year, he was really painful to me personally, which was terrible. I hope he's not listening to this podcast.
Sarah Marion 42:21
Well, it's just just just the Gen X and you coming out of Gen X. This is not necessarily a good solution for personal trainers themselves. But I think for Gen X, like to develop a plan with them. And then instead of like training sessions to have, you know, accountability, check ins basically. So here's the thing, you're gonna do it yourself. But you have to check in occasionally. And that keeps you kind of on target. You
Chuck Murphy 42:52
know, every once in a while someone takes that thought and creates an app around it. I just read I just swear to god last week, I just read that same app. And every time I see that I'm like this, we should have this at scale, there should be a little accountability, group, goal group kind of thing. Because I think it's such a good idea. I think no one has been able to kind of get it at scale in the right way.
Sarah Marion 43:14
It's hard to make money because that's not your
Chuck Murphy 43:21
when I was in grad school, we had a group about once a week, once a week. And you had to you had to say your your three goals for the coming week. And I think one of them was fitness and one was like related to school and one was like a personal thing or something. And basically like you, for every one you missed, I think you had to throw $5 in to the pool for dinner the next week. So we go to this, we got to eat Mexican place it was it was rad place down in San Diego. But uh, the food was awesome. And we could get a margarita or whatever, and whoever didn't meet their goals for the previous week would largely fun to dinner. And it was funny because it would be like, you know, this was Wednesday nights, I still remember so it'd be like Monday or Tuesday, you're like, oh, man, I gotta get this done. Or I'm gonna have to give five it would work. Like you'd be like, I gotta get this done, right. Like
Sarah Marion 44:12
I had to do some physical therapy earlier this year. And it was the most I've ever done strength training exercises because I had to go meet with my guy that I paid for once or twice a week. And if I didn't do it, I would be embarrassed. Also I wouldn't heal.
Chuck Murphy 44:35
There's that but the short term it was the embarrassment was more of a driver. Yep,
Sarah Marion 44:39
had to go in and done the things. We're gonna
Chuck Murphy 44:43
go off into our separate ways and we're going to solve the marketing problem that the next we're going to an correlate alcohol for pure fitness to light somehow. We're going to we're going to use covariance on the back end and we're going to find out what is the most delightful activity once we subtract for alcohol. I like that. All right, well, thanks for educating me on these topics. It was really fun to talk to you.
Sarah Marion 45:12
It's always fun to chat with you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai